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ISAC Congress Profit Motive Less than Honorable Purdue University Cytometry Laboratories Mail List

Profit motive is less than honorable and often interferes with
legitimate scientific inquiry.


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Purdue University Cytometry Laboratories I use B-D

in this discussion as a paradigm for all flow manufacturers  and

biotech companies.

 Many of the arguments I've read on this network  seem to reflect a
disdain for business in academia.

 In other words,


the notion exists that a

profit motive is less than honorable

 and  often

                    interferes with legitimate scientific inquiry.

 

 I contend that corporate profit is in the best interest of academic
science.

***************************************************************************­********************************
***************************************************************************­******************************
a tractor and other farm tools

From: Larry Seamer (la...@athena.unm.edu)

Date: Fri Jul 22 1994 - 15:12:34 EST
•     Next message: Brian Hall: "Employment Opportunity"
•     Previous message: Larry Seamer: "CD-ROM"
•     Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
[ attachment ]
________________________________________

The time has come the walrus said to speak of many things
of shoes and ships and sealling wax of cabbages and kings
of

why the B-D is giving not

and whether a tractor sings.

 I finally feel philosophical enough to impose some of my thoughts
regarding the recent B-D software debate on my colleagues.

I use B-D
in this discussion as a paradigm for all flow manufacturers

 and  biotech companies.

 Many of the arguments I've read on this network
seem to reflect a disdain for business in academia.

 In other words,
the notion exists that a

profit motive is less than honorable

 and  often

                    interferes with legitimate scientific inquiry.

 I contend that corporate profit is in the best interest of academic
science.

 B-D makes money by selling cytometers,

not software.

Software sales can not support the overhead necessary to build the
hardware.

Every company tries to get a "leg-up" on their competition

with innovation, low price, more features, etc.

We are the
beneficiaries of this competition.

 I concede B-D's point, giving away
their 'leg-up' will in the end be counterproductive to B-D

 and to
those of us who rely on B-D.

If B-D does not make money, they go away
and we all build Cytomuts.

 I am not very handy, so, this institution
would probably be flow-less if someone did not sell cytometers.

Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is fodder for future
discussions.

  Many of us have been in this field long enough to remember when
our
monoclonal antibodies

were obtained by making them ourselves

or
begging them from colleagues.

Supplies of antibodies were limited,
quality was inconsistent, standardization was poor and support was
nonexistent.

Also, new antibodies were slow in appearing.

 Thankfully,  it is profitable to sell monoclonal antibodies

and the research which
requires them has flourished.

  One final point on software.

As some have noted in past messages,
the best software has come from independent providers

(Verity,  Phoenix, TrueFacts, TechTeam, etc).

If software is given away, it will no longer be feasible to sell it

and those who make a living by
providing us with innovative and useful software will go the way of
the Dodo.

We will be left with only those who are willing to give it
away or  (B-D, Coulter and Ortho).

As those companies have argued,

they  do not make money on software.

Therefore, it is unreasonable to think
that we can count on the flow manufacturers to meet our analysis
needs.

That leaves only our colleagues who are willing to give it
away as a source new software.

I hope the parallel to monoclonal
antibodies is apparent.
________________________________________
•     Next message: Brian Hall: "Employment Opportunity"
•     Previous message: Larry Seamer: "CD-ROM"
•     Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
[ attachment ]
________________________________________
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.6 : Thu Jan 01 2004 -
17:27:06 EST

**************************************************************************
Note from the Coordinator:

 I'm pretty uncomfortable about using the list for business and
 finance, even when it's related to cytometry, but I'm much more
 uncomfortable about blocking messages.

 I understand why people
 object to messages such as this, and only ask that the list not
 be consumed for the next month with complaints and arguments about
 what people should or shouldn't post.  I also ask that we try
 to keep our focus on generating and disseminating knowledge
 about cells and cytometry.

Steve
***************************************************************************­****************

stock in Cytomation
From: bon...@FOUNDATION.SDSTATE.EDU
Date: Tue Aug 01 1995 - 08:46:59 EST
•     Next message: /G=Gerhard/S=Nebe-von-Caron/OU=1890CHPE/
O=TMGB.URC/
@LANGATE.gb.sprint.com: "Re: DAPI/uptake of nucleic acid stains in
viable bacteria"
•     Previous message: Thomas Delohery: "ISAC XVIII Abstracts"
•     Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
[ attachment ]
________________________________________
**************************************************************************
Note from the Coordinator:

 I'm pretty uncomfortable about using the list for business and
 finance, even when it's related to cytometry, but I'm much more
 uncomfortable about blocking messages.

 I understand why people
 object to messages such as this, and only ask that the list not
 be consumed for the next month with complaints and arguments about
 what people should or shouldn't post.  I also ask that we try
 to keep our focus on generating and disseminating knowledge
 about cells and cytometry.

Steve
***************************************************************************

As a courtesy to the flow community, I am posting this novel notice
of
interest on the flow newsgroups first.

I am pleased to offer 153,000 shares of Cytomation, Inc. for sale in
lots of
300 shares at $1.50 US per share plus transaction costs.

This is a unique opportunity to invest in the future of flow
cytometry.
However, I must caution that this is high risk stock and the
purchaser
must be able to absorb the loss of the total investment.

Having said that, if you are interested please contact me at:

bon...@foundation.sdstate.edu

Bonnie Lievan
Cytomation, Inc. founder
________________________________________
•     Next message: /G=Gerhard/S=Nebe-von-Caron/OU=1890CHPE/
O=TMGB.URC/
@LANGATE.gb.sprint.com: "Re: DAPI/uptake of nucleic acid stains in
viable bacteria"
•     Previous message: Thomas Delohery: "ISAC XVIII Abstracts"
•     Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
[ attachment ]
________________________________________
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.6 : Thu Jan 01 2004 -
17:30:35 EST

Cytomation stock

From: Donald E. Mosier (dmos...@scripps.edu)
Date: Wed Aug 02 1995 - 13:15:05 EST
•     Next message: Mario Roederer: "GUS expression"
•     Previous message: Marc Langweiler: "CAP checklist"
•     Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
[ attachment ]

________________________________________
Whatever the appropriateness of this posting

 (I find it inappropriate),

it must be stated that this solicitation violates a host of Federal
Trade
Commission regulations,

and

that any responsible underwriter would have
blocked this transmission.
________________________________________

•     Next message: Mario Roederer: "GUS expression"
•     Previous message: Marc Langweiler: "CAP checklist"
•     Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
[ attachment ]
________________________________________
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.6 : Thu Jan 01 2004 -
17:30:35 EST

 

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flowcytometry said:

RE: Report from ISAC Meeting San Diego

From: Adam Treister (adam@treestar.com)

Date: Wed May 22 2002 - 01:45:52 EST

• Next message: Susan DeMaggio: "Re: Core Manager's Workshop"

• Previous message: Simon Watson: "Computer Networks"

• Maybe in reply to: J.Paul Robinson: "Report from ISAC Meeting San Diego"

• Next in thread: Adrian Smith: "Biotinylation reagents"

• Reply: Adrian Smith: "Biotinylation reagents"

• Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] [ attachment ]

________________________________________

> From: J.Paul Robinson [mailto:jpr@flowcyt.cyto.purdue.edu]

> Subject: Report from ISAC Meeting San Diego

> Colleagues:

> Hello from sunny California and the ISAC XXI congress. This message comes

to you

> from the CYBER CAFE generously provided by

Adam Triester of Tree Star, Inc of FLOJO land!

> Adam has made a bank of 12 computers, a wireless network and, lots of

network cables for

>  laptops. He has a T1 fast line and is providing FREE access for the

entire congress.

> The room is ALWAYS full and is definitley the most popular place in the

congress.

> It has nothing to do with the outstanding FREE coffee from Ryan Bros,

Coffee again

> generously provided by Adam.

This is the best facility provided by any vendor ever!.....

> so long live FLOJO.....and more free coffee and internet access....

Paul,

Thanks for the kind words, but I can't take all the credit for the

CyberCafe.

Apple generously provided all the Macs.  

IT departments around the world may

say that Macs are hard to network, but we put a dozen Macs on the Internet

in under an hour.   Apple sent top of the line G4s with Cinema displays, and

Titanium PowerBooks, as well as a bunch of iMacs.  Imagine what the lines

would have been like if we only had three computers, as we did in

Montpelier.

The true highlight of the cafe was the free espresso. Thanks to Phoenix Flow

Systems, Guava Technologies, PROzyme and Becton Dickinson for contributing

to the coffee fund. By the time we got to the coffee

I had blown the marketing budget on this endeavor,

and these companies stepped in to make

sure you had Ryan Brothers coffee instead of the swill we'd have gotten from

the hotel.  

I also extend a special thanks to Kevin Becker for bringing the

Mar Dels to the banquet.  

The best band of any ISAC I've attended.

The CyberCafe crew was Jennifer Wilshire, Maciej Simm, Adam Treat and Amy

Hsu.

They thought they were getting a leisurely week on the beach, and ended up working 9 to 9 every day to keep the CyberCafe running.  

It

was an

exhausting schedule, and they were tireless in their support of the

attendees' Internet needs.  It never would have come off without them.

Sophia Ascani and Alexandra Treister tie-dyed the 350 shirts.  Each one is a

unique work of art, and each was hand-dipped.  Our garage floor has the

stains to prove it.  So wear them proud, and wash them in cold water.

We've agreed to do it again at ISAC XXII in Montpelier.  

I'm just thankful this congress is only held every second year.  

All this marketing crap just gets in the way of my programming.

Au revoir,

Adam

------------------------------------------------------------------

Adam Treister

Tree Star, Inc.

ph: 800-366-6045 intl: 1-650-591-2854 fax: 1-650-508-9186

adam@treestar.com    www.flowjo.com

------------------------------------------------------------------

________________________________________

• Next message: Susan DeMaggio: "Re: Core Manager's Workshop"

• Previous message: Simon Watson: "Computer Networks"

• Maybe in reply to: J.Paul Robinson: "Report from ISAC Meeting San Diego"

• Next in thread: Adrian Smith: "Biotinylation reagents"

• Reply: Adrian Smith: "Biotinylation reagents"

• Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] [ attachment ]

________________________________________

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.6 : Thu Jan 01 2004 - 17:41:43 EST

November 23, 2008 2:55 AM
 

flowcytometry said:

Re: Wich differences between Cell Quest and Flow Jo?

From: Adrian Smith (A.Smith@centenary.usyd.edu.AU)

Date: Mon Mar 04 2002 - 19:52:55 EST

•Next message: Van Bockstaele, Dirk: "RE: Bascteria sorting ?"

•Previous message: Nigel Blackhall: "Re: plant protoplast sorting"

•In reply to: Simona Ronzoni: "Wich differences between Cell Quest and Flow Jo?"

•Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] [ attachment ]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Dear Flowers,

>I always work with Cell Quest but now I downloaded Flow Jo program

>and I have a problem.

>I don't know where is the option for create  the union of two gates (

>In Cell Quest   is R1 or R2)

>Then I would to know wich are the substantial differences between

>Cell Quest and Flow Jo

>Thanks in advance

>Ciao

>Simona

FlowJo uses a hierarchical rather than a logical gate structure, ie

you don't work by creating two gates and then combining them, rather

you place the first gate, open the gated plot and place the second

gate directly on that plot.

The best way to get into FlowJo is to do the tutorial that can be

downloaded from the web-site (<http://www.flowjo.com/tutorial.html>).

Until you have got your head around the fundamental differences

between the programs it is very hard to compare them.

Adrian

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

•Next message: Van Bockstaele, Dirk: "RE: Bascteria sorting ?"

•Previous message: Nigel Blackhall: "Re: plant protoplast sorting"

•In reply to: Simona Ronzoni: "Wich differences between Cell Quest and Flow Jo?"

•Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] [ attachment ]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.6 : Thu Jan 01 2004 - 17:41:27 EST

November 28, 2008 1:28 AM
 

flowcytometry said:

Re: Software for MacOSX and PC (WEASEL)

From: facs_copy (facs_copy@wehi.EDU.AU)

Date: Mon Oct 27 2003 - 00:08:05 EST

•Next message: Typisierungslabor Nephrologie Transplantation: "Influence of Immunsuppressiva on FACS XM results"

•Previous message: facs_copy: "Re: curve fitting analytical software"

•In reply to: Frank Mattes: "Re: Software for MacOSX and PC (WEASEL)"

•Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] [ attachment ]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Frank,

> I'm wondering if anyone has tried to use weasel on a sun (solaris 8, with latest java).

> I tried the following command (I have to admit I'm not a java expert, so it might be

wrong)

>

> java Waesel.jar

>

> and the X11 terminal comes up with:

>

> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError:Waesel/jar

Pardon the long delay in replying; I've been away for 2 weeks. I

haven't tested on many unix systems but have tried Sun running sunOS 5.8

with Java 1.4.1 without much trouble.  Of course you don't have

QuickTime on that system so you can't make movies.  The appropriate

command (if you're already in the Weasel folder after a "cd Weasel") is

something like:

java -jar Weasel.jar

(also, check your spelling).

Frank Battye.

--

    |  |  << The Cytometry Lab: facs_copy &T wehi d0t edu d0t au

     \__/ <<<< The Walter & Eliza Hall Institute

------!!<<<<<< 1G Royal Parade, Parkville

     /!!\ <<<< Victoria 3050, Australia

    o !! \  << ph: 61_3_9345 2540, fax: 61_3_9347 0852

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

•Next message: Typisierungslabor Nephrologie Transplantation: "Influence of Immunsuppressiva on FACS XM results"

•Previous message: facs_copy: "Re: curve fitting analytical software"

•In reply to: Frank Mattes: "Re: Software for MacOSX and PC (WEASEL)"

•Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] [ attachment ]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.6 : Thu Jan 01 2004 - 17:44:00 EST

November 28, 2008 1:39 AM
 

flowcytometry said:

EMAIL ABUSE - how to stop

From: J.Paul Robinson (jpr@flowcyt.cyto.purdue.edu)

Date: Thu Dec 12 2002 - 08:43:08 EST

•Next message: PAUL HALLBERG: "Sorting CHO cells?"

•Previous message: kathy schell: "Cell cycle analysis"

•Next in thread: Adam Treister: "Re: EMAIL ABUSE - how to stop"

•Reply: Adam Treister: "Re: EMAIL ABUSE - how to stop"

•Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] [ attachment ]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Colleagues: I am sending out a copy of a message I have just sent to

RNWAY laboratories of South Korea and all 20 worldwide distributors of

RNWAY products most of whom are highly reputable companies. I am only

sending it to you because I am going to propose to create a small

"SCIENTISTS against EMAIL ABUSE"  type of revolutionary action.........

I won't send you more copies of what I am going to send out, but I will post

them in a prominent place on our website so that you can follow and

participate in the action.

I am truly sick and tired of receiving literally dozens of unsolicited crap

messages each day. However, receiving them from supposedly reputable

companies drives me really crazy. These, I can do something about and I am.

The rest are virtually beyoned any reasonable solution. As you can see, I have

started with RNWAY, a company that I have requested a dozen times to

remove me from their abusive lists. This week they sent me an attachment to

boot....- something they do constantly. This made me really mad.

Perhaps it was the beef I ate in the UK this week, but I got really mad when

RNWAY filled my box yet again.....and I am going to set up a place where

people can register copies of messages they send recording their requests

for removal. This record will become a documentation place you can copy

your messages to for any future legal actions.  We will code the email

address of the requestor so you don't get further abuse, but we will publish

the list of companies that continue to abuse us.

If you have suggestions, please let me know.

Sincerely

"Mad Cow" Paul Robinson

Purdue University

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the email that I sent to RNWAYs 20 worldwide distributors

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are receiving this message if you are associated with RNWAY products.

We have continually requested removal from RNWAYS abusive and constant

emails. It is against Federal law in the United States to continue to send

unsolicited emails after requests to discontinue are made. RNWAY posts a

privacy policy that they make no attempt to enforce.  Our requests have been

documented by the university on numerous occasions. RNWAY is now liable

in the United States for severe penalties under US law. As a distributor of this

company you may also incur loss of trade, or reputation for the actions we are

going to take.

As scientists who buy your products, we are going to exert our own economic

power. We will be letting members of our various associated networks that

RNWAY will be listed as an EMAIL SPAM ABUSER. We will be

recommending that all of our users do not purchase any of their products if

they continue to abuse our email accounts.

As a scientist who uses the INTERNET as a crucial component of my

communication with others, I am sick of abuse of my email and I have

decided that I am going to do something about it, one company at a time.

This message has been copied to the 20 companies that distribute RNWAY

products around the world. This is the first of a series of actions. It will also be

copied to 3000 scientists who may have an interest in stopping this type of

abuse.  It will also be posted ona  public site that had last year over 5 million

access. If you as a distributor want to make a profit on selling (scientists)

products, I suggest you ensure that the comanies you deal with don't abuse

us. If they do, we won't buy their products and you will lose money. Do you

hear us?

Yours sincerely

J.Paul Robinson, Professor, Purdue University

------------------------------------------------

J.Paul Robinson, PhD             PH:(765)4940757

Professor of Immunopharmacology

Professor of Biomedical Engineering

Purdue University          FAX:(765)4940517

EMAIL:jpr@flowcyt.cyto.purdue.edu

WEB: http://www.cyto.purdue.edu

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

•Next message: PAUL HALLBERG: "Sorting CHO cells?"

•Previous message: kathy schell: "Cell cycle analysis"

•Next in thread: Adam Treister: "Re: EMAIL ABUSE - how to stop"

•Reply: Adam Treister: "Re: EMAIL ABUSE - how to stop"

•Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] [ attachment ]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.6 : Thu Jan 01 2004 - 17:42:13 EST

November 28, 2008 2:03 AM
 

flowcytometry said:

EMAIL ABUSE - how to stop

From: J.Paul Robinson (jpr@flowcyt.cyto.purdue.edu)

Date: Thu Dec 12 2002 - 08:43:08 EST

• Next message: PAUL HALLBERG: "Sorting CHO cells?"

• Previous message: kathy schell: "Cell cycle analysis"

• Next in thread: Adam Treister: "Re: EMAIL ABUSE - how to stop"

• Reply: Adam Treister: "Re: EMAIL ABUSE - how to stop"

• Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] [ attachment ]

________________________________________

Colleagues: I am sending out a copy of a message I have just sent to

RNWAY laboratories of South Korea and all 20 worldwide distributors of

RNWAY products most of whom are highly reputable companies. I am only

sending it to you because I am going to propose to create a small

"SCIENTISTS against EMAIL ABUSE"  

type of revolutionary action.........

I won't send you more copies of what I am going to send out,

But

I will post

them in a prominent place on our website so that you can follow and

participate in the action.

I am truly sick and tired of receiving literally dozens of

unsolicited crap  messages each day.

However, receiving them from supposedly reputable companies drives me really crazy.

These, I can do something

about and I am.

The rest are virtually beyoned any reasonable solution. As you

can see, I have

started with RNWAY, a company that I have requested a dozen

times to

remove me from their abusive lists. This week they sent

me an attachment to boot....

- something they do constantly. This made me really mad.

Perhaps it was the beef I ate in the UK this week, but

I got

really mad when RNWAY filled my box yet again.....

and I am going to set up a place where

people can register copies of messages they send recording their

requests

for removal.

This record will become a documentation place you

can copy

your messages to for any future legal actions.  We will code the

email

address of the requestor so you don't get further abuse, but we

will publish

the list of companies that continue to abuse us.

If you have suggestions, please let me know.

Sincerely

"Mad Cow" Paul Robinson

Purdue University

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the email that I sent to RNWAYs 20 worldwide distributors

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are receiving this message if you are associated with RNWAY products.

We have continually requested removal from RNWAYS abusive and constant

emails.

It is against Federal law in the United States

to continue to send

unsolicited emails after requests to discontinue are made.

RNWAY posts a

privacy policy that they make no attempt to enforce.  

Our requests have been

documented by the university on numerous occasions.

RNWAY is now liable

in the United States for severe penalties under US law.

As a distributor of this company you may also incur loss of trade, or reputation for the actions we are going to take.

As scientists who buy your products, we are going to exert our own economic power. We will be letting members of our various associated networks that RNWAY will be listed as an EMAIL SPAM ABUSER.

We will be recommending that all of our users do not purchase any of their products if they continue to abuse our email accounts.

As a scientist who uses the INTERNET as a crucial component of my

communication with others,

I am sick of abuse of my email and I have

decided that I am going to do something about it, one company at a time.

This message has been copied to the 20 companies that distribute RNWAY

products around the world.

This is the first of a series of actions. It will also be

copied to 3000 scientists who may have an interest in stopping this type of

abuse.  

It will also be posted on a  public site that had last year over 5 million access.

If you as a distributor want to make a profit on selling (scientists)

products, I suggest you ensure that the comanies you deal with don't abuse

us.

If they do, we won't buy their products and you will lose money.

Do you hear us?

Yours sincerely

J.Paul Robinson, Professor, Purdue University

------------------------------------------------

J.Paul Robinson, PhD             PH:(765)4940757

Professor of Immunopharmacology

Professor of Biomedical Engineering

Purdue University          FAX:(765)4940517

EMAIL:jpr@flowcyt.cyto.purdue.edu

WEB: http://www.cyto.purdue.edu

________________________________________

• Next message: PAUL HALLBERG: "Sorting CHO cells?"

• Previous message: kathy schell: "Cell cycle analysis"

• Next in thread: Adam Treister: "Re: EMAIL ABUSE - how to stop"

• Reply: Adam Treister: "Re: EMAIL ABUSE - how to stop"

• Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] [ attachment ]

________________________________________

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.6 : Thu Jan 01 2004 - 17:42:13 EST

November 28, 2008 2:35 AM

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